How Joshua scaled a full-service law firm in East Texas as revealed in this Revenue Roadmap episode

How to Expand into a Full-Service Law Firm

Many law firms face the challenge of scaling their operations while maintaining their core values and client relationships.

This journey often involves expanding service offerings beyond initial practice specializations to become a full-service law firm.

This Revenue Roadmap episode explores the insights shared by Joshua Swain of Coghlan Crowson, LLP, a firm that successfully transitioned from a specialized oil and gas practice to a comprehensive legal provider in East Texas.

Discover how embracing new practice areas, leveraging technology, and prioritizing client connections can pave the way for sustainable growth and enhanced customer satisfaction for your law firm.

The Path to a Full-Service Law Firm

Coghlan Crowson, LLP, based in Longview, East Texas, has a long history, spanning about 60 years, making it one of the oldest firms in its city.

Initially, the firm’s backbone was deeply rooted in oil, gas, and energy law, largely due to co-founder Howard Coghlan, who was considered a preeminent energy and oil and gas lawyer in the country during the 1960s and 1970s.

He was often involved in prominent cases and served as a special advisor to government entities on mineral ownership.

Over time, the firm naturally expanded its services. This organic growth led them to offer estate planning, property and real estate law, and business law, including both transactional work and commercial litigation in these areas.

This expansion reflects a strategic evolution, allowing the firm to cater to a broader client base and solidify its position as a full-service law firm.

Strategic Expansion of Legal Expertise

Expanding legal expertise requires careful planning and a deep understanding of client needs.

For law firms, this means identifying complementary practice areas that align with existing strengths and client demands, including setting up their respective service pages to target hyper-specific search intent related to your specializations.

The goal is to provide comprehensive solutions that address various legal challenges clients may face.

Identify Synergistic Practice Areas: Look for legal fields that naturally intersect with your current specializations. For Coghlan Crowson, their foundation in oil and gas led to estate planning, real estate, and business law, as these areas often involve property rights and complex transactions.
Invest in Continuous Learning and Development: Ensure your team is equipped with the necessary knowledge and skills for new practice areas. This can involve specialized training, certifications, or hiring attorneys with expertise in those fields.
Phased Implementation: Introduce new services gradually rather than all at once. This allows your firm to refine processes, gather client feedback, and ensure quality delivery before a full-scale launch.

Practical Example: A family law firm might consider expanding into estate planning. Many family law clients require wills, trusts, and other estate-related services following life changes like divorce or remarriage.

Leveraging Technology for Broader Reach

In today’s digital age, technology plays a crucial role in extending a law firm’s reach beyond its physical location.

While Coghlan Crowson, LLP, maintains a single office in East Texas, they leverage technology to serve clients across various regions in Texas, including the Permian Basin, the metroplex, and the Houston area.

This demonstrates that a physical presence in multiple locations isn’t always necessary to operate as a successful full-service law firm.

Embrace Digital Communication Tools: Utilize video conferencing, secure client portals, and cloud-based document sharing to facilitate seamless communication and collaboration with clients regardless of their location.
Optimize for Local Visibility: While Coghlan Crowson relies heavily on word-of-mouth referrals, a strong online presence is vital for modern law firms. This includes a professional website, search engine optimization (SEO) by creating hyper-local content for each service region, and strategic use of social media to showcase expertise and connect with potential clients.
Streamline Internal Processes with Legal Tech: Implement case management software, billing systems, and other legal technologies to improve efficiency and allow attorneys to focus more on client work rather than administrative tasks.

Practical Example: A law firm specializing in personal injury can use virtual consultations to connect with clients in remote areas, eliminating the need for them to travel long distances for initial meetings.

Mentorship and Practical Experience for Aspiring Legal Professionals

Joshua Swain emphasizes the critical role of mentorship and practical, real-world experience for young lawyers.

His own journey, which involved working in the field as a land manager before practicing law, provided invaluable insights into the practical implications of legal advice.

This firsthand understanding of clients’ situations, from meeting individuals in opulent homes to those in humble trailers, underscored how legal work profoundly impacts lives across all socio-economic spectrums.

This philosophy is crucial for any full-service law firm aiming to develop well-rounded, empathetic, and effective legal professionals.

Establish Robust Mentorship Programs: Create formal or informal mentorship opportunities where experienced attorneys guide junior lawyers, offering practical advice and insights beyond theoretical legal knowledge.
Prioritize Fieldwork or Practical Rotations: Encourage or require young lawyers to gain hands-on experience in the areas they intend to practice. This could involve shadowing experienced professionals, participating in client site visits, or engaging in pro bono work that exposes them to diverse client situations.
Foster a Culture of Continuous Learning and Questioning: Encourage young lawyers to ask questions, even if they feel it might reveal a lack of knowledge.

Practical Example: A law firm could implement a rotation program where new associates spend time in various departments, even those outside their primary area of interest.

Maintaining Personal Connections in a Full-Service Law Firm

Despite the advancements in technology and the natural progression towards offering diverse services as a full-service law firm, Coghlan Crowson, LLP, places immense value on personal connection and community engagement.

This commitment to a “word-of-mouth, local lawyer, come and drop by, have coffee with us” resonates deeply with their client base, with approximately 50% of their clients still residing in the East Texas area.

This approach highlights that while expanding services is crucial, maintaining a human touch remains integral to long-term success.

Cultivate Strong Client Relationships: Prioritize building rapport and trust with clients through personalized communication and attentive service.
Engage with the Local Community: Participate in local events, offer pro bono services, or join community organizations as part of your local SEO strategy, boosting your “Relevance, Proximity, and Prominence” qualities.
Emphasize a “Human-First” Approach: Train staff to prioritize empathy, active listening, and clear communication. This ensures clients feel heard, understood, and valued, reinforcing the firm’s commitment to personal service.

Practical Example: A law firm offering estate planning services could host free workshops for seniors in their community, providing valuable information and fostering trust. This direct engagement can lead to new clients who appreciate the firm’s community involvement and personal touch.

Final Tips for a Full-Service Law Firm

Diversify services strategically: Expand into complementary legal areas to meet broader client needs.
Embrace technology: Use digital tools to extend reach and enhance client communication.
Maintain personal touch: Prioritize strong client relationships and community engagement.
Invest in mentorship: Guide young lawyers with practical, real-world experience.

Remember, leveraging the right expertise and consistently delivering value is paramount in a competitive legal landscape.

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Want to read instead? Check out the transcript below!

Interview Transcript

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:06:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Gas is just as fascinating as any other piece of lore today.

00:00:06:07 – 00:00:11:23

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Joshua Swain tells us about his practice that was born in East Texas.

00:00:12:23 – 00:00:15:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Welcome back to The Revenue Roadmap,

00:00:15:01 – 00:00:24:19

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

the podcast designed to help family law firms grow their firm, institute best practices, and become great leaders.

00:00:24:19 – 00:00:35:10

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

My name is Tyler Dolf. I am the CEO of Rocket Clicks, a hyper focused digital marketing firm that works exclusively with family law firms across the country.

00:00:35:12 – 00:01:04:09

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

We also own and operate our own family law firm called Sterling Lawyers, that has 25 offices across Wisconsin and Illinois. Today, I am interviewing Joshua Swain of Coughlin and Crowson, an oil and gas law firm based in East Texas that has been around for a very long time. They started kind of an oil and gas and energy and now have evolved into more estate planning and business law.

00:01:04:11 – 00:01:18:22

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Josh’s journey is amazing. He started at the firm and became a partner. His evolution and the way the firm still focuses on the founding member’s values is a great session. I really hope you enjoy it.

00:01:19:22 – 00:01:22:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Josh, appreciate you taking some time with us.

00:01:34:06 – 00:01:38:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Sure, sure. So I, our firm’s in East Texas. In Longview specifically. And so.

00:01:38:29 – 00:01:39:13

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

We’re right.

00:01:39:13 – 00:01:40:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In that belt of.

00:01:40:11 – 00:01:41:16

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Texas where.

00:01:41:19 – 00:01:43:03

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

We get really cold, damp.

00:01:43:03 – 00:01:43:22

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Weather.

00:01:43:22 – 00:02:00:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

That is, like, bone chilling. But we don’t ever get snow. We don’t ever get ice. It’s just cold. Just bitter cold. It’s just. There’s nothing fun about it. You don’t get to play outside. It’s just wet, damp, cold. But now it’s great. It’s a there’s a ton of pine.

00:02:00:29 – 00:02:02:16

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Trees, and the spring is beautiful here.

00:02:02:16 – 00:02:10:02

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Fall is spectacular. So, it’s a great place to live. So my name is Joshua Swain. I am a partner at the Coughlin and Law firm.

00:02:10:02 – 00:02:10:28

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Our firm has been.

00:02:10:28 – 00:02:12:12

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In Longview for about 60.

00:02:12:12 – 00:02:15:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Years. We’ve been here a long time.

00:02:15:17 – 00:02:17:12

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And then, associated with the.

00:02:17:12 – 00:02:18:06

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Firm for about.

00:02:18:06 – 00:02:20:22

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

So I’ve been here a good long while. My background is in East Texas.

00:02:20:24 – 00:02:22:18

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

I was raised here.

00:02:22:18 – 00:02:23:20

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

And, went to college here.

00:02:23:20 – 00:02:28:19

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Left, for a little while, went to school in the metroplex, finishing law school, and then,

00:02:28:19 – 00:02:30:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

came back here, following jobs. So, that’s where I’m at. I, you.

00:02:30:23 – 00:02:33:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Know, our firm carries its name from our original founding partners, Howard.

00:02:33:01 – 00:02:34:07

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Coughlin and David Croson.

00:02:34:07 – 00:02:37:19

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Who were.

00:02:37:19 – 00:02:39:13

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

And I’m sure you guys had these in your own communities.

00:02:39:13 – 00:02:41:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

They were. They were pillars of the community.

00:02:41:19 – 00:02:43:03

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

It’s like everybody knew.

00:02:43:03 – 00:02:43:22

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Who they were.

00:02:43:22 – 00:02:45:09

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Everybody wanted to know them. And.

00:02:45:09 – 00:02:48:08

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And so our firm is carry trying to carry on that.

00:02:48:11 – 00:02:49:29

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Legacy that they started.

00:02:50:02 – 00:02:52:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

For.

00:02:52:16 – 00:03:01:23

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

You know, decades ago. And so, so far we’ve been pretty successful with it.

00:03:01:23 – 00:03:02:24

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Yeah. So, one thing that we’ve held on to while we.

00:03:02:24 – 00:03:03:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Do more than what we started out with, Howard Coughlin, who started our firm.

00:03:03:19 – 00:03:07:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Was considered by many to be the preeminent.

00:03:07:29 – 00:03:10:16

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Energy and oil and gas lawyer in the country.

00:03:10:18 – 00:03:46:27

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In the 60s and 70s. And so if you if you look at opinions, dealing with everything from the EPA and its origins, to prominent oil and gas cases in Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, you’ll see his name sprinkled in there, whether it’s because he was a part of the case or because he was a special advisor to the government. And if you can dig up the records even of when the government was exploring.

00:03:46:27 – 00:03:48:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

For they were mining for uranium out.

00:03:48:21 – 00:03:51:12

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In, out in the, kind of the Midwest and in.

00:03:51:12 – 00:03:53:17

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

The western parts of.

00:03:53:20 – 00:03:54:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

The of the country. You’ll see his name sprinkled in there. He was a special.

00:03:54:26 – 00:03:55:13

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Advisor on a number of.

00:03:55:13 – 00:03:59:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Occasions. Just helping the federal government and state governments navigate, mineral ownership. So our backbone really started with oil, gas and energy. And then kind of the natural outworking of had, natural growth patterns took us into a state planning.

00:03:59:13 – 00:04:01:29

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Property and real.

00:04:01:29 – 00:04:04:15

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Estate and then business and then kind of the transactional side of that, and so on both sides of that equation. You know, in those areas we do.

00:04:04:15 – 00:04:05:12

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Transactional work, which is.

00:04:05:12 – 00:04:07:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

All of what I do. And then we also do, commercial litigation.

00:04:07:16 – 00:04:08:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

On all of those individual components as well.

00:04:51:18 – 00:04:57:05

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

So we only have one location, in East Texas. Now, you know.

00:04:57:09 – 00:04:58:00

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

By virtue.

00:04:58:00 – 00:04:59:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Of technology, we have the.

00:04:59:14 – 00:05:01:10

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Privilege of working with clients that are based.

00:05:01:10 – 00:05:07:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In down in the Permian Basin and up in the metroplex, down in the Houston area. So we get to work with a number of companies.

00:05:07:16 – 00:05:08:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

That.

00:05:08:14 – 00:05:10:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Are.

00:05:10:21 – 00:05:15:20

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Located outside of East Texas. But I would say that probably still 50%.

00:05:15:20 – 00:05:16:16

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Of our client.

00:05:16:16 – 00:05:25:23

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Base still is in the East Texas in the Deep East Texas area. We’ve it’s it’s interesting how, and I think it’s a.

00:05:25:25 – 00:05:26:10

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Product.

00:05:26:10 – 00:05:28:25

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Of, of the firm’s.

00:05:28:27 – 00:05:30:14

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Generational heritage.

00:05:30:17 – 00:05:35:24

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Is that, you know, if you if you know what you’re looking for, you can find our website. If you know a.

00:05:35:24 – 00:05:36:25

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Lawyer that works there, you can.

00:05:36:25 – 00:05:48:28

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Find a website. But if if you’re looking for, social media posts and we’re it’s really they’re absent because we’ve, we’ve still held on to this type of, nostalgia.

00:05:48:28 – 00:05:50:00

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Like word of mouth.

00:05:51:01 – 00:05:53:03

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Local lawyer. Come and drop.

00:05:53:03 – 00:06:00:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Drop by, have coffee with us. That kind of feel. Which is great. I mean, it’s I’m the youngest professional staff and.

00:06:00:29 – 00:06:01:14

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Lawyers.

00:06:01:14 – 00:06:07:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In the firm. So for me, it’s been, eye opening, I guess, in some respects to to.

00:06:08:00 – 00:06:09:25

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Get to work with a generation.

00:06:09:25 – 00:06:11:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

That still sees so much value in that kind of one.

00:06:11:26 – 00:06:13:12

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

To one personal contact.

00:06:32:18 – 00:06:40:12

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Sure.

00:06:40:14 – 00:06:51:23

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s right. You provide a service and you try to add value to a situation. And, So I.

00:06:51:24 – 00:06:52:26

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Think you’re. You’re right.

00:06:52:26 – 00:06:58:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Is that, you know, a firm that can can learn how to make those to maintain.

00:06:58:17 – 00:07:00:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

A level of personal touch and a personality.

00:07:00:21 – 00:07:05:25

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

With their clients. But also, use the skills and use the tools available.

00:07:05:25 – 00:07:07:14

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

To reach a broader audience.

00:07:07:17 – 00:07:16:02

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Which is, I mean, giving more people access to quality legal services is, I think, another tenant of what the profession should really focus on.

00:07:23:22 – 00:07:36:08

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Okay.

00:07:36:10 – 00:07:44:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Sure. So when I was in law for my second year in school in Texas, we have to take an oil and gas class.

00:07:44:16 – 00:07:45:13

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Because it’s part of a bar.

00:07:45:13 – 00:07:49:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Exam. And so when I took that class, that was kind of built.

00:07:49:07 – 00:07:51:17

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

On our general property law class.

00:07:51:20 – 00:07:57:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

I was just fascinated by the concepts of how.

00:07:57:07 – 00:08:03:23

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

How one Texas had become this pivotal area within the entire world on.

00:08:03:23 – 00:08:05:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Oil production and gas production.

00:08:05:22 – 00:08:16:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And how that, affects economics and how, how it improves and, and affects politics. And so conceptually, I was drawn to that type of.

00:08:16:28 – 00:08:18:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Practice.

00:08:18:23 – 00:08:36:15

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And that combined with the fact that I, both my and my wife’s families are from East Texas. So we really didn’t want to be back here. It was a good fit. A lot of that work to be had. A lot of activity still going on at that time, which I got out of law school in the winter of oh seven.

00:08:36:17 – 00:08:40:28

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And so if you’re familiar at all with, the terms Haynesville Shale.

00:08:41:01 – 00:08:43:18

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Or horizontal drilling or fracking.

00:08:43:21 – 00:08:44:27

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

All of those.

00:08:44:29 – 00:08:45:25

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Terms became.

00:08:45:25 – 00:08:48:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Well known in oh eight and oh nine.

00:08:48:29 – 00:08:53:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And so I walked back into these Texas when there was a lot of activity. So, a lot.

00:08:53:13 – 00:08:55:09

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Of work to do.

00:08:55:12 – 00:09:00:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Some of the best advice I got from an older lawyer was, you know, before you, you.

00:09:00:11 – 00:09:07:04

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Before you can give anybody advice on what they should do, why don’t you go do it a little bit for yourself? And so I spent.

00:09:07:04 – 00:09:07:24

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Two years.

00:09:07:24 – 00:09:36:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Working in the field, as a land manager, having to be out, negotiating everything from leases to rights of way to, to document and then, that that allowed me to get into kind of the more transactional side of the energy industry. And so, that that’s still some of the best advice I’ve gotten. And what I would give to a young lawyer is, you know, you’re going to have a chance to really speak into situations,

00:09:36:01 – 00:09:39:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

and change and influence people’s.

00:09:39:23 – 00:09:41:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Trajectories from their, their.

00:09:41:15 – 00:09:57:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Families and their businesses. And so if you can spend some time learning it, you know, in a firsthand way so that you can appreciate exactly what you’re what you’re telling people to do and how you’re advising people. And so when I got to law school, that’s.

00:09:57:16 – 00:09:58:12

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

That’s the first place.

00:09:58:12 – 00:10:02:25

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

I look, was back, in East Texas, and got a job for a company that was.

00:10:02:25 – 00:10:03:24

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Based in Marshall at the.

00:10:03:24 – 00:10:05:20

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Time and spent two years.

00:10:05:20 – 00:10:06:07

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Just working.

00:10:06:07 – 00:10:08:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In the field, meeting all kinds of people.

00:10:08:11 – 00:10:09:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Landowners all the way.

00:10:09:19 – 00:10:15:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

From north Louisiana, all the way to Texas. And getting a chance to.

00:10:15:21 – 00:10:19:08

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Not spend the first couple of years of my career, legal career sitting.

00:10:19:08 – 00:10:21:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Behind a desk because I was I was extremely.

00:10:21:11 – 00:10:22:17

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Fortunate in that regard.

00:10:28:12 – 00:10:32:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

You know, there was, the language wasn’t quite as foul.

00:10:32:01 – 00:10:32:23

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

There wasn’t it.

00:10:32:23 – 00:10:46:25

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Wasn’t quite as many explosions. But so, no, I mean, I had.

00:10:46:27 – 00:10:51:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

The experiences are very, very wide. I, I remember.

00:10:52:03 – 00:10:53:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Having conversations with people.

00:10:53:13 – 00:10:55:11

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

In their living rooms.

00:10:55:13 – 00:11:05:04

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In homes that, you know, worth more than my home and my parent’s home and their parents’ home and everything else combined. And I remember sitting.

00:11:05:04 – 00:11:06:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

In trailers.

00:11:06:17 – 00:11:19:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

You know, watching roaches crawl up the wall. So, I mean, it was it was a, a really good learning, learning experience for a young lawyer, who might have been, both out overseas a little bit and also maybe a little bit.

00:11:19:17 – 00:11:20:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Prideful and arrogant.

00:11:20:19 – 00:11:24:28

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

About, about what was hanging on my wall.

00:11:44:19 – 00:11:47:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

So I had a chance to sit down with,

00:11:47:26 – 00:11:53:20

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

He is. He’s he’s on his way to retirement now. But he was the family office.

00:11:53:20 – 00:11:55:29

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Attorney for a very.

00:11:55:29 – 00:11:56:21

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Wealthy family.

00:11:56:21 – 00:11:57:10

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Here in the area.

00:11:57:10 – 00:12:01:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And I just happen to have a connection to him through my stepdad.

00:12:01:11 – 00:12:03:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And so I sit down with him, and I’m a semester.

00:12:03:26 – 00:12:04:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

From graduating.

00:12:04:15 – 00:12:24:16

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Law school, and, kind of that same feeling of, okay, how do I get a job? Do I go out on my own? I kind of realizing that, you know, law school, does it teach you a lot about business? So, you know, you kind of fill in the gaps. And so, I just one of the questions I asked as I, you know, what what advice would you have for me if, if I’m trying to.

00:12:24:16 – 00:12:25:15

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

If I want.

00:12:25:15 – 00:12:28:00

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

To work in the energy industry as a lawyer?

00:12:28:00 – 00:12:29:18

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And he said, look,

00:12:29:18 – 00:12:36:09

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

and I knew what I wanted to do, they said, before you do that, you need to go out and get.

00:12:36:09 – 00:12:41:09

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Some practical experience. You’re going to be advising, individuals, property owners.

00:12:41:12 – 00:12:45:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Landowners, companies on you. You’re going to be telling them what to do and they’re going to rely on you.

00:12:45:29 – 00:12:49:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

But before you do that, you need to go out and actually understand.

00:12:49:16 – 00:12:50:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

The real world.

00:12:50:15 – 00:12:58:20

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Implications of the advice that you’re going to give, how it’s going to change somebody’s family, how it’s going to change somebody’s life, how it’s going to change somebody’s land that they’ve.

00:12:58:22 – 00:13:00:12

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Held on to for six generations.

00:13:00:12 – 00:13:04:22

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

In their family can date back all the way to the 1860s. You’re going to need to understand.

00:13:04:22 – 00:13:04:26

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

And.

00:13:04:26 – 00:13:10:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Appreciate the kind of changes that you’re going to have, a hand in making both positive and negative.

00:13:12:28 – 00:13:40:25

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Yeah. And and, you know, and I’m thinking this guy’s fixing to tell me, hey, do this and you’re going to make $1 million. And he says, no, you need to go understand what you’re fixing to do. So because what you’re going to do is, is going to change the lives of people positively and negatively. And so, that was that was a great piece of advice because I had a chance, to go out and actually do field work and meet people that, my practice never would have, come in contact with.

00:13:40:25 – 00:13:44:18

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

I mean, like, on one hand, it was the experience of.

00:13:44:28 – 00:13:46:00

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Practically learning.

00:13:46:00 – 00:13:46:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

How to.

00:13:46:14 – 00:13:47:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Converse with people.

00:13:48:08 – 00:13:50:09

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

When there’s such a wide disparity in.

00:13:50:09 – 00:13:50:23

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Knowledge.

00:13:50:23 – 00:13:55:08

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

But to, on and this was really more related to.

00:13:55:08 – 00:14:00:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

That, the Haynesville Shale exploration explosion when.

00:14:00:07 – 00:14:01:20

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Seeing somebody, you know.

00:14:01:20 – 00:14:03:08

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Two generations, three generations of.

00:14:03:08 – 00:14:03:19

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

People.

00:14:03:19 – 00:14:05:01

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Sitting in a trailer.

00:14:05:11 – 00:14:10:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And handing them a check that is 250,000.

00:14:10:01 – 00:14:11:03

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Dollars.

00:14:11:06 – 00:14:12:08

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And knowing that.

00:14:12:08 – 00:14:16:06

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

That has forever changed the trajectory trajectory of their entire.

00:14:16:06 – 00:14:16:24

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Family.

00:14:16:24 – 00:14:30:03

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

I think knowing that that you’ve done that for somebody or been a part of that, it’s it’s eye opening to the extent that it really does, it, it allowed me to appreciate in, in a deeper sense, the fact that.

00:14:30:03 – 00:14:33:03

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

When you, when you do legal work,

00:14:33:03 – 00:14:45:04

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

whether it’s, family law, whether it’s estate planning, whether it’s litigation, P.I., or whether no matter what you do, what what you end up, doing and accomplishing for your clients.

00:14:45:06 – 00:14:45:26

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Makes a real.

00:14:45:26 – 00:14:47:29

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

World lasting change. And sometimes those.

00:14:47:29 – 00:14:49:20

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Ripples carry on for generations.

00:14:49:20 – 00:14:57:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And that was that was a lesson that I, I could not have understood unless I had I had been on that side of, side of the equation.

00:15:28:07 – 00:15:32:03

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Okay. Yeah. Ask questions. I mean, that’s you know, I think there’s this.

00:15:32:06 – 00:15:33:07

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Undercurrent in law.

00:15:33:07 – 00:15:51:18

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Schools that, you know, you’re typically there with, with bright students, you’re typically there with accomplished individuals, whether they’re straight out of undergrad or whether it’s, it’s kind of, after about a couple of years and back into it, you’re typically there with very accomplished individuals. And there’s this undercurrent, at least in my experience, this.

00:15:51:18 – 00:15:53:01

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Undercurrent of

00:15:53:01 – 00:15:54:19

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

everybody’s smart.

00:15:54:21 – 00:15:57:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Everybody needs to be, everybody belongs here.

00:15:57:17 – 00:15:58:21

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

And there’s this.

00:15:58:21 – 00:16:00:19

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Sense of pride that kind of,

00:16:00:19 – 00:16:01:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

has its.

00:16:01:13 – 00:16:04:02

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Genesis here.

00:16:04:05 – 00:16:06:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And at least in my experience, was

00:16:06:17 – 00:16:24:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

You know, nobody else was asking questions. You should be smart enough to figure this out on your own. You really do. You know, you really should. Yeah. You should have this. Had this bull by the tail already. And so the advice I would give to a young lawyer is find people who have done it and done it well, have conversations with them,

00:16:24:07 – 00:16:29:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

find, you know, a the catch phrase now is, you know, find a mentor.

00:16:29:25 – 00:16:36:13

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And I think that’s absolutely true. Find somebody who can coach you and tell you how to do things really, really well and can.

00:16:36:14 – 00:16:37:06

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Work through.

00:16:37:06 – 00:16:54:07

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Challenging questions with you, about whether it’s do I start my own practice? Do I hang my own shingle? Do I do I join a law, a large firm? What does that mean? How does that affect my family? How is that going to look like five years from now, after I’m knee deep in this thing? And a change is much harder?

00:16:54:10 – 00:17:00:09

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Having somebody to bounce ideas off of in a way that can foster that sense of,

00:17:00:09 – 00:17:04:14

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

continuity and honesty is I think it’s incredible.

00:17:04:14 – 00:17:06:05

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

I think it’s really important.

00:17:06:07 – 00:17:14:27

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And I think it’s really important what you guys are doing, what you put together here, because it is not everybody has the chance to do this. Step 101. Whether.

00:17:14:27 – 00:17:17:09

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

It’s because of their personality or opportunity.

00:17:17:11 – 00:17:20:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Having a forum where you can tie into and get.

00:17:20:29 – 00:17:22:06

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Real world practical.

00:17:22:06 – 00:17:24:01

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Advice on how to

00:17:24:01 – 00:17:30:09

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

practice law. Yes, but how to how to fold a legal practice into your life overall and how.

00:17:30:09 – 00:17:31:05

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

That works and what that.

00:17:31:05 – 00:17:32:09

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Looks like in the.

00:17:32:11 – 00:17:33:08

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Rewards you get.

00:17:33:08 – 00:17:39:22

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

And how you are able to, influence things around you in your community. I think it’s wonderful that you.

00:17:39:22 – 00:17:40:23

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Guys are putting.

00:17:40:23 – 00:17:59:11

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

This together and from what I’ve watched the other interviews, I it’s you guys had some spectacular people on here and it’s so I mean, truly, I this is this is really a, quite a thrill for me. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But, you know, young lawyers getting tied into.

00:17:59:11 – 00:18:03:04

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Forums and opportunities like this where they can learn in a very practical.

00:18:03:04 – 00:18:09:17

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Way, and pick up nuggets that they can put into action that very same day. I think it’s a critical.

00:18:09:17 – 00:18:10:15

SPEAKER 2: Joshua Swain

Part of.

00:18:10:17 – 00:18:14:21

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Maintaining and advancing the health of the legal industry. In general.

00:18:17:19 – 00:18:40:10

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Of course.

00:18:40:12 – 00:18:42:26

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

My pleasure. Yes. They are truly.

00:18:42:26 – 00:18:46:12

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

Thank you, everyone for listening. We will see you next time on revenue roadmap.

00:18:46:17 – 00:19:03:03

SPEAKER 1: Tyler Dolph

If you enjoyed this interview, you can continue down our interview series. Where, next week, we talk to the law firm, the Pacific Northwest Family law Firm. Make sure to check it out here. Because it’s one you are not going to want to miss.